Ep. 1 - Sean Toulon || Sean's History in Golf and What's Next for Toulon?

The first episode of the Made for the Range Golf Podcast is finally here and we've got a one hell of a guest to jump start the launch of the Podcast. 

Sean Toulon has an incredible history in the golf industry. He's responsible for some of the most famous golf clubs in the history of the game, is renowned for being one of the best personalities in golf, and above all else is a husband and father of three sons. 

Now back to work with his wife Kathy and two sons Preston and Tony, Sean and the Toulon crew are embarking on the 3rd life of Toulon Golf with the introduction of their brand new (now released!) lineup of 2024 First Run Collection putters while maintaining a steady stream of small batch releases for the discerning collector. 

Jake talks with Sean about his days at TaylorMade and Callaway, how he thinks about golf club design and why decisions he has made in his career happened the way that they did, and gives us a small glimpse into the current state of Toulon Golf now separated from Callaway and Odyssey, carving a new path forward for the company and the family. 

For more details on everything Toulon visit their website at toulongolf.com and follow them on Instagram @toulongolf and @seantoulon 

Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:26:18
Jake Morrow
All right, everybody, welcome back to the made for the range YouTube channel. And now the made for the range podcast of some sort. Not sure if I'm going to change the title of this eventually. There's probably a heavy chance that I do. But for now, we're going to stick with Made for the Range podcast. I have the absolute pleasure of having Sean two on as the very first guest on this podcast, which I mean, you know, and like I know you might roll your eyes as I say this again, but I'm a giant fan of Sean.

00:00:26:20 - 00:00:49:11
Jake Morrow
Sean has done so much in the industry that people don't know, and I want to dive into a bunch of that today. And then also we're now in, you know, Canada, the third life of two on, I guess you could say this time there was a few like a cat. Yeah, there was no five minute retirement this time and we're diving back into a new breath for Toulon, which we'll talk about as we get further into this.

00:00:49:13 - 00:01:05:20
Jake Morrow
But yeah, so for if somebody had no idea who you were, which, you know, just let people know kind of how you started in the industry and then just a high level of where you've been throughout. And then I'll get into some of the more specific questions. Sure.

00:01:05:20 - 00:01:19:20
Sean Toulon
I'm a golfer, just like just like you are, Jake. And, you know, from like age 12, you know, and I think my path growing up in the Midwest was similar to so many young, young kids.

00:01:19:22 - 00:01:27:15
Unknown
I played baseball until I was sure that I wasn't going to be a major leaguer, which was about 11. The first time

00:01:27:15 - 00:01:28:05
Unknown
I saw a curveball,

00:01:29:19 - 00:01:31:05
Unknown
Okay.

00:02:07:03 - 00:02:07:12
Unknown
terrible

00:02:18:21 - 00:02:37:01
Unknown
Awesome. And so you have you've worked at some very large companies. You started a couple smaller ones that are in the depths of golf history at this point. And I'm like we said, this is the third brother to on. So what was your start in the industry from a let's say from an equipment standpoint?

00:02:37:01 - 00:02:59:13
Unknown
Because I know like I said earlier, you're you were responsible for leading teams or directly responsible for some crazy products that have like legendary products that people like me or, you know, guys like your were kind of guys or guys like Ryan Bosworth, like we still talk about those products, right? So what led you down that path? Because like, I don't care about the golf swing, right?

00:02:59:14 - 00:03:11:06
Unknown
I care about golf equipment. And it's there's only a select few of us that care so much about the equipment itself. Right. And so it's always interesting to see, like, how did you get onto the equipment focused, pure

00:03:11:06 - 00:03:24:19
Unknown
Well, I was lucky enough to go to work for a little startup company. Right after I finished school, I went to University of Wisconsin and I graduated in December of 82.

00:03:24:21 - 00:03:35:00
Unknown
And as I said earlier, I knew I wanted to be in golf and I was a good player, but, you know, certainly not a tour quality player. And I was sure I didn't want to be a club

00:03:35:00 - 00:03:36:12
Unknown
pro.

00:03:55:16 - 00:03:57:19
Unknown
Okay, So

00:05:34:06 - 00:05:34:19
Unknown
I got

00:06:22:19 - 00:06:24:02
Unknown
salesmen in

00:06:41:15 - 00:06:42:00
Unknown
So

00:07:23:23 - 00:07:35:09
Unknown
to be that well. And there's there's also there's a lot of truth built into that, too, because there are times where, you know, when you talk about equipment the right way, it's not about what equipment is better than other equipment.

00:07:35:09 - 00:08:07:03
Unknown
It's about what equipment is best for that person that you're trying to get it in the hands of like or the pro that's going to sell it to the guys at their club or whatever the case may be. And there's so many different avenues, and I think that's what I'm trying to to portray the most with. What I'm doing now is it's I haven't done and I won't do a comparison like brand over brand because for me the brand can sell themselves, but the person needs to know from a technology standpoint and from an engineering standpoint why one head was made the way it was and another one was why which one of those would

00:08:07:03 - 00:08:32:14
Unknown
be better for them. So from a from an equipment standpoint, it's always such an interesting conversation because it's and I've talked to other guys in the field, in the golf industry about this of focusing on the engineering and equipment of it and like almost battling the marketing at the same time, because the marketing can usually take it one direction and that's great for a retail environment or for like an online environment where they're trying to just get a sale out of it directly.

00:08:32:14 - 00:08:48:08
Unknown
But when you talk about people playing better golf, it matters what equipment they play and knowing the equipment that they play. So you had a you had a really long run at TaylorMade, then you ended up what was your what was your final title at TaylorMade

00:08:48:08 - 00:08:49:19
Unknown
Executive Vice President

00:08:49:19 - 00:08:52:15
Unknown
of or just executive Vice versa. Yeah, it was everybody.

00:08:55:10 - 00:08:56:08
Unknown
I would say. Yeah.

00:08:59:03 - 00:09:07:20
Unknown
And what was the what was the first product that you can say you had the majority of ownership. So I just tell you exactly what it was.

00:09:07:20 - 00:09:22:15
Unknown
It was 300 series. Yeah. So when I came back, Mark had just been appointed president and I had an 11 and a half month stint at COBRA working for Kushnir, which is a wonderful company.

00:09:22:20 - 00:09:24:12
Unknown
It was a terrible fit for

00:09:24:12 - 00:09:30:13
Unknown
me. But that was, that was a cushion I cobra right when there was that little overhang. So I reported directly to

00:09:30:13 - 00:09:47:22
Unknown
all of you line and while he was amazing. Yeah, but as a TaylorMade guy, I was just from Gary. I was wired to believe that you could do anything and that the best time to do it is now.

00:09:47:22 - 00:10:15:16
Unknown
Yeah. And the other companies that, you know, I either worked for or was around had a very different attitude. And, you know, we just we thought we could take the world by storm. So my very first product and I can remember to the day so I started this is amazing. Actually, my first day back was January 3rd, 2000.

00:10:15:18 - 00:10:47:22
Unknown
It was the day after Gary Adams died. So, you know, one of the things that that I felt was important was that Gary was really honored and remembered. Right. And and, you know, I am a big I'm a big believer in fate. And I don't think that date was by accident. And, you know, I wanted to I wanted to make sure that TaylorMade would find its rightful place in the history of the game.

00:10:47:22 - 00:11:20:18
Unknown
So anyways, so I got to work and, you know, everybody was expecting TaylorMade in 2000 to come up with a new driver because that's what they did, right? And so I started to as I got there, I started to rummage around R&D and there's some incredibly brilliant people there. One of them, Benoit Vincent, who was in charge of R&D, and another guy named Dick Ruggie, who who left shortly after I got there to go and run, take on the equipment role at the USGA.

00:11:20:18 - 00:11:43:10
Unknown
But so I started to look and see, you know, what are we working on and what do we have and what are your thoughts? And and Ben Wah French in so many ways said to me, we have a new new device or we have a new thought. It's called NCC. I said, that's cool. What does it stand for?

00:11:43:15 - 00:11:45:15
Unknown
New club concept? I said, Okay,

00:11:45:15 - 00:11:48:08
Unknown
marketing guys haven't hit this yet, so maybe there's some

00:12:49:07 - 00:12:50:11
Unknown
dots, right,

00:13:12:20 - 00:13:14:04
Unknown
accent. One player is, as

00:13:19:14 - 00:13:20:02
Unknown
Yeah,

00:13:37:10 - 00:13:38:07
Unknown
In the marketplace

00:13:44:12 - 00:13:45:03
Unknown
DX Yep,

00:14:58:11 - 00:14:59:06
Unknown
equipment

00:15:12:15 - 00:15:13:08
Unknown
And

00:15:39:22 - 00:16:03:11
Unknown
yeah, 30a week. And this was at a time to where like the, the idea was certainly the stock shaft conversation wasn't really a thing like it was. It was way more about you would switch brands, switch heads switch launch conditions rather than what we everybody knows now as pretty much everybody has three some have four buckets of drivers.

00:16:03:11 - 00:16:19:10
Unknown
But then even, you know, within those drivers like the biggest nerdiest thing that I get into is chefs. And and we know that, you know, within those buckets of drivers, you can also adapt those drivers into sub buckets of those buckets. That's right. It's getting it's gotten so crazy now, which is great for everybody right now. It's great for the game of golf.

00:16:19:10 - 00:16:37:15
Unknown
It lets people play better golf. And but at the time, with the launch of the 300 series, I think like obviously I wasn't I wasn't in golf around then. I've just heard the stories from everybody about that time. But the the 300 series is also, you know, when people make media and they're like, hey, what's hit an old driver?

00:16:37:17 - 00:16:50:12
Unknown
Like everybody, It's almost all of those videos is using a 300 series because, right. Sometimes it still keeps up. Like whenever somebody goes back and it's like, let's compare today's technology to old technology, Like everybody uses the 300 series for this comparison. Well, if

00:16:50:12 - 00:17:01:08
Unknown
you can find an hour, 360 hour meaning RNA, which was when they bifurcated R, the R was hot, hotter like 860.

00:17:01:10 - 00:17:01:14
Unknown
Help

00:17:01:14 - 00:17:21:02
Unknown
yourself. Yeah, it's a good one. They don't get a whole. That's very nice. Yeah. So then from the from the launch of the 300, what was the what was the last product that you had your name on it Tim. I mean I know that it was probably something that actually came out after you had officially left tail or maybe.

00:17:21:02 - 00:17:53:23
Unknown
Yeah. What was that product? M1 An M2. Okay, so that's what I thought. I just wanted to clarify and make sure on that because I think that that is my my statement for most people is your I think more popularized by your work with Callaway because your name was on everything physically right like everything physically said to on and people really associate you with those putters but like the zero story sometimes gets lost and I think the the metal work tailor made and there was we'll talk about some of the putter work to TaylorMade too but the middle Woods work at TaylorMade was phenomenal.

00:17:53:23 - 00:18:18:03
Unknown
I mean you go all the way from are the 300 series everything with an R on it even AR 15, which I'm not going to give you too much junk about, but sweet spot of a you know of a fingernail. But we didn't we weren't perfect. And it was I would argue that within that span I think our 15 might have been the only the only miss, honestly, like everything else, did a really, really good job.

00:18:18:03 - 00:18:44:04
Unknown
And the AR 15 was perfect for the tour guys like and that was so my introduction to the golf equipment space was right at the launch basically of AR 15. So my very first introduction into golf was Jordan Spieth winning three majors, Jason Day being world number one. And the TaylorMade team at that time was Jason Day, Dustin Johnson and then that was like right as the Nike stuff ended.

00:18:44:04 - 00:18:51:02
Unknown
So Rory was coming on board like TaylorMade had the most, and that was when Sergio was still, I know his dream was relevant and it's

00:18:51:02 - 00:18:53:06
Unknown
like they combined The Beatles and the Rolling Stones.

00:18:53:06 - 00:19:14:04
Unknown
It was it was while the TaylorMade Tour staff was at that moment in the. Yeah. You know, 15 to 17 basically. And so my introduction was with my my first driver was a used R one because I thought that the very advanced technologically amazing sole plate adjustability was really cool.

00:19:14:07 - 00:19:39:23
Unknown
Super cool. Yeah. And, and then I went to, I played a exclusively a to every driver all the way through M2 basically. And then I later found out that all of that stuff was kind of under the umbrella of one man. And then that was when the the equipment obsession started. And that's where my admiration for you in the the underappreciated I felt of like the stuff that you've been responsible for, whether it was directly or with teams.

00:19:40:01 - 00:19:48:02
Unknown
Because I know you're also you're a very big team guy. Like you're never one that's going to shut down the rest of your team. I know that. And so you can tell that

00:19:48:02 - 00:19:50:09
Unknown
to Tony and Joe and Preston sometimes.

00:19:50:09 - 00:19:57:12
Unknown
Yeah, well, Preston has his own accolades that I would give him, but I don't need to have him smile too much back there.

00:19:57:14 - 00:20:14:12
Unknown
But it's so obvious. Walk us through the evolution of that from because there's so much in there, Right. And we don't have time. Eventually, I think we'll do a whole nother one of these, just about 300 m2. But there was so much evolution in there. So first off, the white driver was giant. So can we talk about that release?

00:20:14:14 - 00:20:19:07
Unknown
How the heck did that come? Can I go back to one quick move wherever you need to, okay,

00:20:19:07 - 00:20:20:17
Unknown
Because I feel like I left something

00:20:20:17 - 00:20:21:11
Unknown
out

00:20:21:11 - 00:20:31:05
Unknown
on a 300 series. What? That became a smash hit. Yeah. And tailor made. This is when you know you have a product problem. When I got there,

00:20:32:08 - 00:20:38:15
Unknown
they had 27 staff players paid to play the driver and the average count.

00:20:38:17 - 00:20:41:11
Unknown
Darrell Survey count was seven, which means

00:20:41:11 - 00:20:42:16
Unknown
there's 20 guys not

00:20:43:05 - 00:20:44:03
Unknown
knowing their contract.

00:20:44:17 - 00:20:45:01
Unknown
that

00:21:10:02 - 00:21:10:21
Unknown
3,

00:21:37:20 - 00:21:38:19
Unknown
and we had a way

00:22:15:01 - 00:22:16:06
Unknown
longer with this

00:22:27:20 - 00:22:28:15
Unknown
buddy. Yeah. yeah.

00:22:44:01 - 00:22:45:19
Unknown
for it. And this is in the year

00:23:27:15 - 00:23:28:21
Unknown
Why? Yeah,

00:23:54:09 - 00:23:55:03
Unknown
of the clubhead,

00:24:14:13 - 00:24:15:21
Unknown
play and one in

00:24:23:08 - 00:24:34:11
Unknown
cool. Yeah. So speaking of our seven, so I actually have over the last five, six months I have accumulated all of the R seven models and I have them all.

00:24:34:13 - 00:25:11:21
Unknown
And the biggest thing about r7i think was that was a it was the first time that there was the, there's the sub buckets of the buckets. Right. Because the movable weight technology obviously you couldn't transfer it between the head and maybe fit somebody slightly unique that had. But to me it was actually looking back it seems like it's really the first time that there was a CG story in a line of heads, because if you look at something like the R seven draw, right, the shape of that thing from the bottom is so unique and actually until the recent launch of Q ten max, which is there, you know, ten K whatever one now.

00:25:11:23 - 00:25:36:04
Unknown
Right. And the first thing I said to the guys at the Kingdom when I picked it up and turned it over, I was like, Wow, this is this is very R seven draw ish. And the one editor looked at me and he was like, Yeah, yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty similar to that shape. And because they just, they just cut out of the toe, it basically they were like, look, why, why are we trying to make the sole of something look good instead of making the performance that we need out of this to be very specific for that player.

00:25:36:06 - 00:26:17:05
Unknown
And the evolution of that now obviously is like that has now bled into every manufacturer and everybody has three again, sometimes four buckets of that golfer now. And the catalyst of that being what you guys did out of those drivers is really, really cool. And the tour story used to be way more prevalent too, right? We had like when that occurred on tour for you guys with with our seven, it poured into what became the big tour story that I knew of our 15 and the guys that were playing in the stories and tour right nowadays, just like not to jump around too much, but what do you what do you see now with equipment?

00:26:17:05 - 00:26:40:11
Unknown
Because the tour stories are, I would say, less prevalent now, right? It isn't. There's a lot less people concerned about what a tour players playing. And that's so that's side of this question. Side B is what are what are your thoughts on guys like by Collin Morikawa, right? Kyle Morikawa played a driver model through four years of his contract without switching into the new one.

00:26:40:13 - 00:26:57:12
Unknown
What what does that do to a product specialist or an engineer or an R&D person at those companies? Does it anger them or does it invigorate them to to really just keep trying to to do better? Because a top ten player in the world. Right. Is not switching, Right. Well,

00:26:57:12 - 00:27:03:18
Unknown
it should do both. Right? So right off the get go, you should be disappointed.

00:27:03:19 - 00:27:29:03
Unknown
You should be you should be angry. But not at him. You should be angry at yourself. I go back to what Gary said product only. So Colin wasn't using it because it wasn't demonstrably better. Right, to use a Ellie Callaway phrase. So if it's if it's not working better, I Why would you change, Right. I wouldn't. Yeah. So that means you've got a lot of work to do.

00:27:29:03 - 00:28:03:05
Unknown
So you haven't, you haven't figured it out. You know, I got, I got invited this is years ago, probably 2008, to be on a panel to talk about equipment at St Andrew's. And on the panel was Kyle Phillips, who designed the Kings Barns and many great golf courses. Robert Trent Jones was there, who's very cool. The somebody was there from the Arnie I can't I can't remember.

00:28:03:07 - 00:28:14:09
Unknown
It may have been Martin Slumbers but anyways so it was a pretty distinguished panel and and it was really about equipment and has equipment gone too far and and

00:28:14:09 - 00:28:22:11
Unknown
this was in 2008. Yeah. wow. So they were even at that time they thought equipment was going too far. And now we're dealing with rollbacks. So I had

00:28:22:11 - 00:28:26:19
Unknown
a book which I've I probably left there by accident right.

00:28:26:21 - 00:28:29:21
Unknown
But I started. So I was the bad guy,

00:28:29:21 - 00:28:31:20
Unknown
right? Because I was the equipment guy. Right?

00:30:11:01 - 00:30:17:08
Unknown
Okay. So then just zoom in back then. So white driver story. What how the heck did that happen?

00:30:17:21 - 00:30:41:07
Unknown
It was the genius, I would say. And he doesn't get credit for it. But I would say the the genesis of of the idea was from our king and what Mark said is you can do it any color that you want to land, but it can't be black because it just they just all look the same, which was really interesting.

00:30:41:07 - 00:30:58:04
Unknown
And I'll tell you why it became so important. So literally, we did prototypes in 15 colors, a beautiful, beautiful sort of a candy sort of Ferrari red. But candy, I have a yellow one, I think in Tony's

00:30:58:04 - 00:31:00:07
Unknown
office here that I've seen the sort of a I

00:31:20:04 - 00:31:21:01
Unknown
one. It was matte white.

00:31:21:05 - 00:31:21:19
Unknown
It was a matte

00:31:35:10 - 00:31:37:04
Unknown
Right. Who worked for me for years

00:31:54:21 - 00:31:57:19
Unknown
that, right? But what is your one? They liked it,

00:33:12:10 - 00:33:14:20
Unknown
that schmuck. Get it again, right?

00:33:30:02 - 00:33:34:22
Unknown
Well, I had I didn't I was just with T.O. a couple weeks ago doing content.

00:33:35:02 - 00:33:51:11
Unknown
Right. I had no idea he was involved in that decision. So. So next time I see him, I'm going to bring that up and talk to him. But yeah, that's very cool. Okay. So, so white driver exploded. White driver lasted through m two because I'm. Yeah, I'm four, I'm five. It was silver. We

00:33:51:11 - 00:33:54:18
Unknown
had actually moved away from the white driver for SDR,

00:33:55:18 - 00:33:56:07
Unknown


00:33:56:07 - 00:34:01:00
Unknown
so I had a white SDR though, but we didn't like retail.

00:34:01:00 - 00:34:08:14
Unknown
It wasn't the, it wasn't the first launch because it was so the R was it was like a matte gray on top. I wouldn't call it silver. It was it was a

00:34:08:14 - 00:34:10:05
Unknown
charcoal gray, but it wasn't matte,

00:34:10:05 - 00:34:10:17
Unknown
okay?

00:34:19:06 - 00:34:37:01
Unknown
Yeah, well, an SDR 440 is one of those things that people still like to this day. I know Ian Frazier is one of those guys in Ian and I have talked about LCD or for 40 because that's still the like. If you can find somebody that can hit that thing out of the middle right and? And plus like again, this is we could have a whole tailor made torque

00:34:37:01 - 00:34:41:22
Unknown
by itself because like the Saudi marketing campaign of locked up like that was so cool.

00:34:41:22 - 00:34:44:06
Unknown
I still remember those days. Yeah that actually a

00:34:44:06 - 00:34:45:18
Unknown
bunch of guys win with 12 degree

00:34:45:18 - 00:35:03:20
Unknown
lap the drivers but because dude J was in 12 degrees when he was playing and that's the last person you think would write in something that high. The that actually brings up a good point though. So there was a time period with TaylorMade where there was a I guess the right way is like a premiere line.

00:35:04:02 - 00:35:30:22
Unknown
But then there was a bonded line too, right? So when they became adjustable, there was also a bonded. So I believe SDR was attached to rocket balls originally. And then the one that I remember the most is AR 15, and then it had aero burner as the the bonded. Now, that one is funny to me because there was a bunch of aero burners on tour, which I don't think was the plan, you know having our 15 mostly on tour, but the best product always wins, right?

00:35:30:22 - 00:35:45:01
Unknown
Yeah. So what's the catalyst of that? Because you had buckets with the, the premiere line you call it, and then with the bonded stuff, what was, what was the reasoning for that? Like why offer a bonded driver? Because that's when people started making a lot of

00:35:45:01 - 00:35:53:09
Unknown
cost price Right. So as soon as you begin to add complications, whether it's a putter or a driver, they become more expensive.

00:35:53:09 - 00:36:37:12
Unknown
Right. And driver prices were starting to get up there pretty high. So, you know, then it was you know, there was typically a 399 or even a Ford 49 or something like that. And then there was a need in the marketplace for maybe something that was cheaper. So so something like 299 and you'll remember when we did the the bomber and the which was our seven and I maybe it was our seven super quad and then a burner, I can't remember the one it was now, but it was if you were a bomber you just grabbed a driver and, you know, swung for the fences.

00:36:37:12 - 00:36:57:06
Unknown
It hit as hard as you could and it and what was really interesting is the tour was sort of bifurcating. So there was a guy like Mike where as a perfect example, when you would watch Mike Weir, whether you were at the golf course with him or at a photoshoot or whatever, to talk about the driver, it was like, you know, it goes this way or this way or this way.

00:36:57:08 - 00:37:06:22
Unknown
And he would talk very specifically and he wasn't trying to hit a fairway. He was trying to hit specific parts of

00:37:06:22 - 00:37:08:07
Unknown
a fairway, right?

00:37:14:08 - 00:37:14:22
Unknown
right? Yeah.

00:37:31:16 - 00:37:31:19
Unknown
sort.

00:37:31:19 - 00:37:32:17
Unknown
Right. Yeah. And

00:38:19:04 - 00:38:20:15
Unknown
like that on the top right.

00:38:31:18 - 00:38:51:17
Unknown
Well, okay, so then so that we don't sit here for 3 hours. Yeah. Okay. So putters now know that that started out ten women. So I do want to talk a little bit about that because again, I think that is an area that people probably don't understand the things that you could get accredited for. And I think some people were very surprised by those products.

00:38:51:19 - 00:39:06:02
Unknown
And then obviously as you moved into your your five minute retirement before going into Callaway, So talk to us about the TaylorMade side of putters and what you did there. Again, we can go pretty high level with this. Yeah, because I want to I want to jump into the new the new 200.

00:39:06:02 - 00:39:15:20
Unknown
Yeah. So TaylorMade, you know, was a driver company and then was starting to become an iron company but was, you know, nowhere to be found in putters.

00:39:15:21 - 00:39:26:12
Unknown
And we wanted to do something that was noticeably different. So there was the whole creation of Rosa. I enjoy cars.

00:39:26:12 - 00:39:26:21
Unknown
Yeah.

00:40:45:11 - 00:40:46:06
Unknown
but

00:40:59:03 - 00:40:59:22
Unknown
And

00:41:25:00 - 00:41:28:11
Unknown
is kind of what you're looking for, but

00:41:58:11 - 00:41:58:23
Unknown
or I'm

00:42:02:14 - 00:42:03:06
Unknown
He said,

00:42:03:06 - 00:42:04:18
Unknown
That's awesome.

00:42:04:23 - 00:42:23:06
Unknown
I mean, there's so many. So this is I'm not sure what the right question here is, but that that has to to sit with you some certain way that you are responsible in some way, shape or form for products that. Now, like I'll use Pink as an example, right?

00:42:23:06 - 00:42:46:04
Unknown
The answer shape, everybody's got their own version of an answer shape now. But like that happened with Spider and and I don't think that that I don't think it's evolved quite far enough right Like the answer shape has been so switched or gone so long. But Spider is growing in its age, essentially. And you have spider shapes from multiple manufacturers.

00:42:46:10 - 00:43:07:13
Unknown
And and it's not like a hidden thing. It's the companies will say like, look, everybody's got their version of an answer shape. And now we only have to have our versions of the spider shape or the number seven or what exactly there's there's other examples of it. But for for you personally. Right. And talking to your wife and your sons and stuff, it's it's hard to realize that influence.

00:43:07:13 - 00:43:28:06
Unknown
Right. And and I don't think you do it for influence. I don't get that from you ever for anything that I see you do. But that does have to sit with you in some way. It's like knowing that there's this whole branch of golf that has happened because of you. Like, does it? I don't. I just don't know how that would make me feel.

00:43:28:06 - 00:43:31:14
Unknown
So I'm. I'm trying to figure out how that how that sits with you. Yeah,

00:43:31:14 - 00:43:34:20
Unknown
well, number one, thanks for for the question.

00:43:34:20 - 00:43:38:17
Unknown
The easy answer for me is I don't care.

00:43:38:17 - 00:43:42:01
Unknown
Yeah, I thought that's what you were saying. I don't. I only

00:43:50:09 - 00:43:50:18
Unknown
sure.

00:43:50:20 - 00:43:55:21
Unknown
My son. I'm glad Tony does. You didn't Nobody. What happened? And then all this stuff would be lost. But I

00:43:59:05 - 00:43:59:23
Unknown
how we're going to get

00:44:10:19 - 00:44:11:08
Unknown
God.

00:44:11:10 - 00:44:11:20
Unknown
And,

00:44:26:02 - 00:44:26:17
Unknown
or our

00:44:36:07 - 00:44:36:22
Unknown
right?

00:44:48:03 - 00:44:48:21
Unknown
have this

00:45:00:18 - 00:45:02:00
Unknown
to have it right? So there's

00:45:23:00 - 00:45:23:18
Unknown
I'll buy it.

00:45:23:20 - 00:45:24:08
Unknown
Yeah,

00:45:33:23 - 00:45:44:07
Unknown
excited. Yeah. So I have I have one more spin off question of what you just said that I've been waiting for a good time to ask, but then I also then we can finally we'll get into your, your five minute retirement.

00:45:44:07 - 00:46:06:12
Unknown
The original two design. Yeah. The Callaway version of that as well as obviously I do want to get into what we're doing now what is what's the product that it doesn't matter When it was released to me as old as you want. What is the product since you've been in the industry that has come out that you didn't do, You were like, Damn, like, I wish I had my name on that

00:46:07:09 - 00:46:08:16
Unknown
AP two iron.

00:46:09:12 - 00:46:16:19
Unknown
that's a great answer. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And what about that? Got you. As excited as you clearly are about it,

00:46:16:19 - 00:46:24:00
Unknown
just the, the entire concept of it was and I guess maybe they've sort of recreated that with this tee.

00:46:24:00 - 00:46:25:00
Unknown
150. Yeah.

00:46:49:13 - 00:46:51:07
Unknown
that. Yeah,

00:47:06:02 - 00:47:21:03
Unknown
yeah, that, that became the iron. A lot of people chased it basically agreed it was it's funny that you say that the T 150 example because I was talking to Mike from TSC the other day actually and it was well, it wasn't the other day, it was when the release of the new t shirts came out.

00:47:21:03 - 00:47:47:23
Unknown
We both hit them and, and I called Mikey and we were talking about it and I told him I was like, look at the one fifties, not for me, but the player that it's for is going to be phenomenal. And I was like, I just I can't quite figure out why this feels the way it feels. And his first thing, he was like, Dude, in ten years when we're talking about equipment stuff, he's like, We are right now realizing the launch of the new AP too.

00:47:48:01 - 00:48:06:10
Unknown
And I was like, That is such good way to put it because I get it. It's not just us that's felt like that too. I know that a lot of people have made that comparison. Okay, so then jumping into 2 to 1 as a brand. So you retired from TaylorMade, basically, you went to bed, you woke up, you unretired and you started to on design.

00:48:06:12 - 00:48:13:13
Unknown
I know that's not exactly the story, but for lack of a better of saying it, Tony and Joe really started and they asked me to join. Okay. Right.

00:48:13:13 - 00:48:26:12
Unknown
And it was really interesting because I had just finished playing a round of golf with Scottie and had we had a wonderful day together and sort of rekindled a friendship that was strained because of, you

00:48:26:12 - 00:48:29:10
Unknown
know, competitive and your in your member guest champions.

00:48:29:12 - 00:48:39:23
Unknown
I think a long time I think I'm going to use that is going to be the the the first social clip from this podcast is Sean to on and Scottie Cameron our member guest champions we are at Chateau Ridge a

00:48:39:23 - 00:48:41:05
Unknown
long time ago 30 years ago.

00:48:41:05 - 00:48:44:03
Unknown
I got to go take a shot of that photo and put it in here.

00:48:44:05 - 00:48:45:06
Unknown
The trophy is still there

00:48:45:06 - 00:49:09:12
Unknown
anyways. And I came home and Tony and Joe said, Hey, what do you think about this idea? And they laid out the whole plan. And I said, Well, let's think about it a little bit more. And it was to do really high end milled putters and compete against Scottie. And the part of it that was weird is 45 minutes before that, I was having a beer with him.

00:49:09:14 - 00:49:30:02
Unknown
And then but when you really dug into it, you know, there are other people that were making nice putters at the time, but Scottie was a dominant number one and then bet Nardi it would have been a number two, but it we felt like we could bring some things to the table that would allow us to move quicker too.

00:49:30:03 - 00:49:52:09
Unknown
Then it would be another other categories. And it's something that both Tony and Joe and now Preston were really passionate about. So and so. So my yeah, because there's so much more freedom and art that can go into a putter than, you know, a mallet. Mallet can look like anything. Blade's not quite as much, but mallets can be anything.

00:49:52:11 - 00:50:06:02
Unknown
So that part was really cool. We dug into it, started to do our work and came up with a plan that we felt like we could execute. And more importantly, we felt like the golfer would care about it. And we were right.

00:50:06:02 - 00:50:13:04
Unknown
That's awesome. And then so you had you had Tony and Joe with you through the start of two on design.

00:50:13:04 - 00:50:14:13
Unknown
And my wife, Kathy, who was

00:50:14:13 - 00:50:17:20
Unknown
basically running, you know, all the operations of

00:50:17:20 - 00:50:31:16
Unknown
the company, which is amazing. Yeah. And she is amazing, you think, to you. Yes. She's been so and I just said no. I've had so many conversations their last couple of days. Now she's just so nice, like she's such a lovely woman. She's she's awesome.

00:50:31:18 - 00:50:48:06
Unknown
I'm lucky. Well, and there's there's definitely there's a balance within the two one family as well. Like, I have from an outsider's perspective, I have and I have experience with Joe too. Like, I've talked to Joe and connect with Joe about other stuff and like, there's definitely a balance within the home and it's great because you guys all feed off of each other.

00:50:48:06 - 00:51:13:02
Unknown
I think that you guys all have very unique strengths and nobody I haven't seen anybody within the family, especially with the new stuff of trying to like overlap or trying to go into something that is not their their thing. Like, it seems like there's a lot of there's your very race, race race person, right? Like you're you're kind of like me where you need the component that slows you down sometimes.

00:51:13:02 - 00:51:33:15
Unknown
But at the same time, if you weren't way you are and to keep going, the stuff that you've done probably wouldn't happen. Right. There's and I need that in my life too. Like I'm the person that's thinking I had somebody make the joke the other day we were talking about made for the range and what I was doing and I laid out this like beautiful plan to get to where I want to be in five years.

00:51:33:17 - 00:51:54:11
Unknown
And he at me and he's like, What are you doing on Tuesday? I was like, I don't know. I like no clue. Like, I'll I'll figure that out on Tuesday. And so it's, you know, there's a there's a perfect balance here. And we'll get into that when we talk about the new two. On. Sure. So the years the years at Callaway you had Joe and Tony and Joe is now the the manager of all tours in May.

00:51:54:14 - 00:51:56:15
Unknown
His title might be fancier than that. I

00:51:56:15 - 00:52:02:02
Unknown
don't know exactly what his title is, but he basically is in charge of the PGA Tour for Callaway.

00:52:02:02 - 00:52:19:08
Unknown
Yeah, because Cody is now the tour of Houston, correct? Yeah. So now we he was just doing a wonderful job. They're really proud of him. Yeah. And your your work at Callaway, I know that you didn't necessarily work on the teams like directly for some of the other product outside of Odyssey in Toulon.

00:52:19:08 - 00:52:25:02
Unknown
But you were, I would say you probably got consulted on most of this stuff. So I ran all

00:52:25:02 - 00:52:28:17
Unknown
of industrial design for all products there.

00:52:28:17 - 00:52:29:11
Unknown
So

00:52:32:11 - 00:52:34:08
Unknown
see, I thought it was just for Odyssey, you know.

00:52:34:08 - 00:52:37:14
Unknown
And then I was also, of course, general manager of Odyssey.

00:52:37:17 - 00:52:39:05
Unknown
Yeah, running all of Odyssey. So

00:52:50:16 - 00:53:01:03
Unknown
So that's what, that's epic. Epic Flash started with Epic. Okay. Yeah. it just with just epic. Okay, so you were. I got there right away then. Okay.

00:53:01:03 - 00:53:05:01
Unknown
Right when we were kind of making the final changes to the product

00:53:09:14 - 00:53:10:17
Unknown
So

00:53:10:17 - 00:53:11:03
Unknown
after

00:53:11:22 - 00:53:34:13
Unknown
that's actually really interesting because I switched. So after, after M2, I went Epic Flash Sub-zero and I have since then played a Callaway tour driver, which is just super convenient. That was when you switched over. Well, that's actually Hoyer said. Not I didn't realize that until this point because I honestly, I thought it was just the Odyssey stuff.

00:53:34:13 - 00:53:56:10
Unknown
Just because, again, I think that's how people know you now, because your name is physically on those products with with the work that Tony and Joe did over there, too. So moving through the evolutions of Callaway, instead of getting into the whole thing like you do a tailor made, what's the what's the one thing that really stands out to you from the years that you guys spent with the Callaway Odyssey team,

00:53:56:10 - 00:54:17:00
Unknown
the the R&D at Callaway is so robust and so resourced and important to to that company.

00:54:17:02 - 00:54:41:17
Unknown
It's amazing. I mean, there's there's nothing like it. TaylorMade has got great R&D. They don't have what Callaway has. Tillis has got great R&D. And I'm not privy to what Titlist looks like now and golf ball and things like that. But I can just tell you that the capabilities and resources that Callaway allocates towards R&D is mindblowing. Yeah, And they're

00:54:41:17 - 00:54:42:12
Unknown
they're amazing.

00:54:42:14 - 00:55:06:10
Unknown
So I was with you when the what is now called I milled was two on I 80 I think was like the full name at the start of it or something like that. And I was with you hitting the very first iteration of a Chicago that had the air face with it. And I, I now realize you're very passionate first about all your products.

00:55:06:10 - 00:55:25:05
Unknown
You get very, very excited about pretty much everything that comes out. But I had not up until that point. So basically two years into the industry at that point with all these reps, all these company executives and all these people that I talk to about the Bronx, I had never seen an individual so excited about something. So that work with a I.

00:55:25:05 - 00:55:55:05
Unknown
What did that mean to tackle it? Because it seems like like they had a big outbreak but it doesn't seem like AIG outbreak hit this the ceiling of what Callaway really wanted the have to be into to me with everybody that I knew at Cal and still no it felt like the innovation to the the topography on the back of those Potter faces was the moment that like they felt like the air was finally giving them the years and years of R&D that they put into it.

00:55:55:07 - 00:56:28:13
Unknown
Yeah, I think just in general, Jake, the Callaway team is learning, I would say daily on what they want, how I can impact their business and and the performance of their products and it's only as good as the inputs. So and then the computing power. And so there's they're learning and they're going to continue to get better and better and better, which means they're also going to get faster and faster and faster.

00:56:28:13 - 00:56:31:17
Unknown
And it will be a competitive advantage. It is already.

00:56:31:17 - 00:56:32:14
Unknown
Yeah. And I think

00:56:37:06 - 00:56:39:03
Unknown
yeah, And I can tell you

00:56:39:03 - 00:56:40:16
Unknown
it's not the same.

00:56:40:21 - 00:56:52:13
Unknown
They wrote their press release with right now the whole thing is influence based. Yeah. So okay so now, yes, we are in the third iteration of of to on as its own company.

00:56:52:13 - 00:57:24:21
Unknown
So we had the stint alone now at Callaway and now Back Alone it's an hour or two on golf. What is what's the catalyst for why this needed to exist? I guess that's that's a weird way of asking that question. But to to leave Callaway and to to move back to doing it on your own. Right. I think that's for a lot of people that would be a really not weird but a lot of people would feel like that was a step back and it's not.

00:57:24:21 - 00:57:26:22
Unknown
And that's that's kind of okay. I'm

00:57:26:22 - 00:57:28:07
Unknown
sure a lot of people would think that.

00:57:28:08 - 00:57:28:19
Unknown
Yeah.

00:57:29:10 - 00:57:54:17
Unknown
So let me answer the question this way. One, and I'm not comparing myself other than age to this man to see, you know, that when I was contemplating it at age 63, it's like, why would you do that? Yeah. Ellie Callaway was 63 years old when he founded Callaway Golf.

00:57:54:19 - 00:58:15:16
Unknown
So think about and again, you know, I'm not saying I'm really Callaway any stretch of the imagination, but at that age you'd think, why would you do it? And he did. And other people have and I have a ton of energy and and a lot of excitement. So number one and knock on by the way, this is a camp

00:58:15:16 - 00:58:18:01
Unknown
Randall Taylor, Bucky Badger, Bucky Badger shout.

00:58:18:01 - 00:58:22:05
Unknown
My little sister went there, you know, So she was my sister for sure.

00:58:22:05 - 00:58:45:08
Unknown
But the I have a lot of energy and I'm in good health and and, you know, so I feel awesome and I feel like there's a lot to do when you get a chance to work with your sons. It's incredible. And, you know, the first time around, working with Tony and Joe was was great.

00:58:45:10 - 00:59:06:02
Unknown
And now Tony and Preston joining us. It's amazing. And, you know, who knows, maybe over time, sometime Joe joins the team. I you know, it's he's doing a wonderful job at it at Callaway and is happy there and he should be if he ever decides he'd like to come over, I'm sure we'll find a desk for him.

00:59:06:02 - 00:59:06:21
Unknown
But

00:59:35:05 - 00:59:35:14
Unknown
You're

00:59:37:15 - 00:59:38:04
Unknown
creative

00:59:39:02 - 00:59:39:16
Unknown
Yeah.

00:59:43:12 - 00:59:43:20
Unknown
You,

01:00:29:14 - 01:00:52:06
Unknown
Yeah. It's it has been so he's he's sitting over there behind our other cameras but so I met Preston through his previous job. In my previous job when I was working at Club Champion, my passion through Mitsubishi and I the for the first couple times I talked to Preston, I remember like not wanting to ask him about you, but at the same time, like wanting to ask him about you.

01:00:52:08 - 01:01:13:10
Unknown
And then I came out here for a trip and we did those videos at Callaway, and I've told people the biggest difference. So first off, I'll say it this way. If you ask golf industry people, right, who's the nicest person in the golf industry? I have heard one of two answers from every individual to you and Chris Fish.

01:01:13:11 - 01:01:25:01
Unknown
All right. And that is I have not gotten a different answer besides those two people. And most of the time they say, well, because people don't like to decide. But it's one of those things I've never met

01:01:25:01 - 01:01:26:04
Unknown
Chris, but I heard he's a nice

01:01:26:04 - 01:01:37:22
Unknown
guy. He's I haven't either. I've talked I have had chats with Chris. I shook his hand at PGA last year really quickly, but I am excited, actually, hopefully this year to get to do some stuff with Chris.

01:01:38:00 - 01:01:57:18
Unknown
But the the idea that you are trying to figure out where this right the second time I met you, you came right up to me, you shook my hand and you're like, Hi, Jake, how you doing? There was no reason you needed to remember who I was. There was we had like a half an hour interaction. The first time we met.

01:01:58:00 - 01:02:16:18
Unknown
We did some stuff on camera. It was really fun. But like at your level and at your bravado within the industry, like, was no reason for that. And I can tell you right now you are one of, I think, two people at your level in the golf industry that have done that. And it's but to me, that's that's who you are.

01:02:16:18 - 01:02:42:14
Unknown
Like you're you're that person. And the connection that you guys now have here inside and going back to, you know, me trying not to make an awkward talking about somebody who's sitting ten feet away from me is Preston has helped me more than anybody else at this point. And getting closer with with you guys and with even with with Tony and your wife and Joe, I can see why.

01:02:42:16 - 01:03:05:14
Unknown
Right? I can see how Preston got to the attitude and the empathy and the drive that he's at and how he has influenced me with some of that stuff. He also has this this weird ability to like, understand people somehow. And because he's pointed me twice now on paths that I probably would not have thought about, and I will always give him credit for that.

01:03:05:14 - 01:03:30:19
Unknown
But it's just it's one of those things where I can see it right within within within you and within your wife. I'll give her a lot of credit, too, because now having, you know, it's only been like 48 hours, but I feel like I know her very well now, over 40 hours. It's so easy to see so to see everybody come together and do this and, you know, I've seen Tony throw things on Instagram of like the like the grandkids are in here riding bikes or whatever.

01:03:30:19 - 01:03:54:17
Unknown
And right now we're at the, you know, very beginning stages of whatever this next chapter ends up becoming. And we have the new 2024 line. But I think people also need to understand, like, I watched you build three small batch putters to get shipped out. And we had you know, we talked yesterday. I was talking to your wife at the house about, you know, people that call in and she's like, I don't know the answer.

01:03:54:17 - 01:04:06:04
Unknown
I'll let you talk to Sean. And then people are like, Wait, am I am I talking to Sean, too? And it's in for you and for, like Preston and your wife. It's like, Yeah, you're talking to Sean. That's great. Like, congratulations. It's just so they

01:04:06:04 - 01:04:08:07
Unknown
don't always know me as the nicest person in golf, by

01:04:08:07 - 01:04:10:01
Unknown
the way. But like.

01:04:10:07 - 01:04:20:11
Unknown
But that's cool. I don't think. I don't think people realize that you're you're talking on the phone to just normal customers. You're answering some of the emails. You know, you're building love doing it. Yeah,

01:04:20:11 - 01:04:22:01
Unknown
I do love doing it.

01:04:22:08 - 01:04:32:02
Unknown
It's it that part is really cool. And I I'm trying to figure out more ways and, you know, we're working on a bunch of content together, too, which I'm really thrilled to be a part of.

01:04:32:04 - 01:04:55:18
Unknown
I think that that's going to be something that as this gets bigger and bigger, I can't wait to see what that becomes and what else comes out and the new stuff. But yeah, the you know, I think this is has been built from the last two. I think that obviously there was a ton of stuff and I know you still have some relationships with like a ton of people that you met Callaway and like supply chain stuff, stuff like that.

01:04:55:18 - 01:05:03:13
Unknown
And there's still support that exists there. I don't think it was a I think it's important to say like nothing bad happened way, you know, just the opposite. Yeah,

01:05:03:13 - 01:05:18:06
Unknown
it was just the opposite. Everything that has happened since we left or, you know, to, to really facilitate this happening again has come from, from, from Chip Brewer, who is a dear friend, and Tim Reid, who's a dear friend.

01:05:18:08 - 01:05:29:23
Unknown
You know, they've been amazing to us and continue to be so. So we have a wonderful relationship with them that's going to continue hopefully for hopefully

01:05:29:23 - 01:05:32:01
Unknown
forever. Right. You

01:06:09:22 - 01:06:11:07
Unknown
seen it. Yeah, what we're going

01:06:12:08 - 01:06:13:02
Unknown
a month

01:06:32:02 - 01:06:49:03
Unknown
Yeah. I when when I got wind of this all happening because Preston kept me informed of some things in the most vague way possible, I thought for sure, right? I was like, okay, so this is going to happen next year.

01:06:49:03 - 01:07:04:07
Unknown
We're going to get a madison, we're going to get a Vegas, and they're going to throw one more at us. And that's when I started to talk to you guys about planning for the content that we've been doing and all, you know, eight of the hands plus different puzzle selections for some of them, plus the left hand stuff.

01:07:04:07 - 01:07:21:21
Unknown
I was like, well, we went from what I thought was going to be three right handed only models, right? Maybe in a couple of next selections to the entire lineup, two brand new models, and a very heavily redefined Memphis. So really there's on

01:07:21:21 - 01:07:23:14
Unknown
top of that, I think of all the small batches.

01:07:23:14 - 01:07:24:18
Unknown
Yeah well that's one of them.

01:07:24:18 - 01:07:25:18
Unknown
Yeah. So there's a ground

01:07:26:18 - 01:07:52:13
Unknown
Yeah. The small match thing is a whole other discussion about what you guys are doing with that. And I don't think people realize that the, the small batch stuff is it's so hard to a do it at the frequency that you guys are doing it and I think that's incredible the fact that you guys are basically busting one of those out a month if not closer to like 45 days But still I think that's incredible amounts of work in.

01:07:52:13 - 01:08:13:04
Unknown
The design process that has to go into those is way deeper because once the 2024 lineup is done, that's your lineup. Until you change the lineup or you change technology, you find something new. But with small batch, it's you're not just, you know, just taking ahead, stripping it of its current finish and changing it to something else like that is not what a small batch putter like.

01:08:13:05 - 01:08:29:12
Unknown
We just saw you build a sea island this morning, which is beautiful, but those turtles are crazy. Thank you. But to go through small batch so let's dive into that just a little bit more as we go in, because the 2024 product we're going to have a ton of videos on is going to be much of content from the two on team.

01:08:29:12 - 01:08:46:17
Unknown
I'm going to have a bunch of it as well. And then, you know, the media is going to catch on to that really quickly. And when those are available for people to buy, it's going to I think it's going to shoot just extremely quickly because I think people are really happy that you're still continuing to do this. But with small batch, what's the process there like?

01:08:46:17 - 01:08:55:14
Unknown
Is that like you woke up in the middle of the night with with a dream for a putter, head, you start drawing it and making it or like, is it a little bit more thoughtful than that?

01:08:55:14 - 01:08:56:13
Unknown
It's both.

01:08:56:13 - 01:08:57:07
Unknown


01:09:05:04 - 01:09:05:23
Unknown
ago when

01:09:20:23 - 01:09:21:14
Unknown
not huge.

01:09:21:14 - 01:09:22:01
Unknown
It's, it's,

01:09:49:14 - 01:09:50:17
Unknown
whole idea

01:10:21:21 - 01:10:22:07
Unknown
from.

01:10:22:07 - 01:10:24:03
Unknown
A head shape. Yeah, but

01:10:25:21 - 01:10:26:10
Unknown


01:10:29:17 - 01:10:32:02
Unknown
yeah, and you know, from that it's

01:10:39:15 - 01:10:40:15
Unknown
it's new, you

01:10:42:09 - 01:10:55:20
Unknown
it's frickin expensive to make to do all that for 75, but it's still very. I think people need to understand that we're talking less than usually less than a hundred putters. Actually, I don't always listen. I don't think any of them have retractable do it. You know, like it's so expensive to do that.

01:10:55:21 - 01:10:56:06
Unknown
Yeah.

01:10:57:18 - 01:11:05:22
Unknown
And, you know, we've been able to put together the the right team to be able to do that.

01:11:05:22 - 01:11:22:02
Unknown
So we'll start first at the design phase. So that's an idea, typically an idea and it could be the inspiration can come from anywhere. So we're we just finished Santa monica. When is this going to go? Are people going to hear this?

01:11:22:02 - 01:11:23:20
Unknown
I want to know if I can

01:11:25:10 - 01:11:27:12
Unknown
there. So I don't think we can do.

01:11:28:16 - 01:11:33:06
Unknown
I'll blurt out, No, I'll forget to blank this out.

01:11:33:06 - 01:12:01:05
Unknown
Okay. So Latrobe, so Latrobe will be the next one. Right. And so Latrobe, when you think about it, it's Latrobe after Arnold Palmer, he was the one who really was instrumental in the design of the 8802 in 1964, which is just this incredible iconic shape that almost all great putters at one point in time have used a putter like that, if not that one.

01:12:01:07 - 01:12:12:03
Unknown
So, all right, if you were going to do that, if that's an important putter and Arnold Palmer is, you know who he is or remains

01:12:12:03 - 01:12:13:10
Unknown
to be. Yeah.

01:13:34:06 - 01:13:36:06
Unknown
sticking out of your forehead. And then

01:14:17:13 - 01:14:18:10
Unknown
muscles, which is great.

01:14:18:11 - 01:14:42:11
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I mean, the the freedom that you guys have with those, because it can be anything you want. It can be can be it can be shapes that you've never tackled before. And maybe we finally get the two one flavor of that. And I think the other thing, too, that you and I have talked about with small batches, small batch, it can also become kind of a like an R&D mini phase for a shape that you might want to add to the stock collection.

01:14:42:11 - 01:14:59:21
Unknown
Definitely an incubator. If if something just really goes off and you get all these requests of like, you know, hey, I know you made 75, but does it happen to be one laying around or whatever? And you get more and more of those requests or tour feedback and that is a big one. I think that's that's a huge thing for you guys to do.

01:14:59:23 - 01:15:29:06
Unknown
Micro testing, right? I would. But like you also know that the testing and the feedback that comes out of those releases is arguably the best feedback you can get because of what they spend on the putter and how loyal they are to those those putters and the feedback there. Our customers are amazing. They've just been amazing. Yeah, No, this is I'm I'm so excited about what you guys are doing now and to make sure that this doesn't end up being our whole day, we can we can start to wrap up here, but we'll definitely do another one of these in the future too.

01:15:29:06 - 01:15:30:18
Unknown
I think an update would be great.

01:15:30:18 - 01:15:32:09
Unknown
Honored to be with you on your first one. But

01:15:32:09 - 01:15:34:18
Unknown
I think this is yeah, it's going to be very yeah, we

01:15:34:18 - 01:15:36:09
Unknown
love what you're doing, too. And

01:15:36:09 - 01:15:36:20
Unknown
so

01:15:39:06 - 01:15:43:00
Unknown
I appreciate that. I am very I'm super happy to be on this journey.

01:15:43:00 - 01:15:59:17
Unknown
I think I think these these podcasts are going to be cool too, like having a great, you know, having people like yourself willing to sit out I think is going to really impact well, if Chris is as nice as people say, yeah, he should be number two, I'm hoping Chris ends up being on I think if

01:15:59:17 - 01:16:00:22
Unknown
he big time's you you call me

01:16:00:22 - 01:16:01:08
Unknown
I

01:16:01:08 - 01:16:02:16
Unknown
don't know but I'll I'll

01:16:03:01 - 01:16:05:05
Unknown
I'll I'll make sure I just send that.

01:16:05:06 - 01:16:22:14
Unknown
Sure. Yeah. Yeah it'd be like hey here's, here's your pressure now Chris. Chris is a great guy and he's already actually, he's helping me with the mystery team. Well, that's great. He. It's a wonderful company. Yeah, I imagine he's going to be later this year. Probably Chris will jump on which. But did you see the White Mizuno? Did you see that the other day?

01:16:22:14 - 01:16:42:20
Unknown
No. Yeah. So Mizuno is having a special release. Matt White Crown Mizuno S.T. As it looks, it actually looks really sick. I wish I wanted to not like it. There was a bunch of us within the industry have been talking about it because we're all like, All right, like who needs this to be brought back in? We're all pretty much just negative about it because we knew it was coming.

01:16:42:22 - 01:17:03:13
Unknown
And then we see the pictures and we see the enhanced stuff. All of us were like, All right, this is pretty sick. It's really cool. So yeah, that's that's a little nugget there. But so the 2024 stuff, guys, is releasing in just a few days as of this podcast going up. Thank you again for sitting down and for for everything here.

01:17:03:15 - 01:17:06:02
Unknown
I'm excited to keep working with you guys for sure.

01:17:06:02 - 01:17:06:19
Unknown
Thank you. Very fun.

01:17:07:02 - 01:17:07:19


01:17:07:19 - 01:17:13:17
Unknown
Hey person, can you do me a favor in that camera bag over there was this 9

01:17:13:17 - 01:17:14:22
Unknown
hours long press

01:17:16:11 - 01:17:16:18
Unknown
Okay.

01:17:16:18 - 01:17:22:11
Unknown
Five zero or 15? okay. That's not that bad. In that bag, there is a cup

01:17:22:11 - 01:17:26:23
Unknown
that I would like to give to your dad or.

01:17:27:01 - 01:17:43:18
Unknown
Yeah, I want to take a picture of it. It's fine. It can be a decoration. I do use these. my God. I used that. So I had an awesome. I had these made. So here. Yeah. I try to show this. yeah. So yours is a little special because it's got a first on there. that is so awesome.

01:17:43:20 - 01:18:03:19
Unknown
And I do use it as, you know. Yeah, I get to the office early. Usually I'm here a little after five and I. So I need something to load up with coffee to, to bring here. So This is like my. It's like a new age thermos. Yeah. It's, and it's actually awesome. So to work with, they made that golf ball texture

01:18:03:19 - 01:18:28:06
Unknown
So I'm a you're going to be able to give all the podcast guests one of those and your first time but I'm not very yeah very, very happy about that. So I should have you do it first and I would have thrown your coffee in there. Now the Masters is, you know, no problem. Yeah. Yeah, you're, you're watching as you're watching on YouTube and then obviously going to some social podcast clips, but I have no idea if this is on Spotify or anything yet to really figure that out.

01:18:28:08 - 01:18:37:18
Unknown
But thanks watching on YouTube, everybody. Just make sure you stay tuned for the 2024 release from to on and I know people are going to love it. Great. Thanks so much. All right,

01:18:37:18 - 01:18:42:06